Miranda Worthington:
Hello and welcome to Negotiating Government, the podcast from Negotient. I'm Miranda Worthington, Senior Associate at Negotient, based in our London office. I'm here with Joshua Flax, founding partner of Negotient and our United States lead.

Joshua Flax:
Good afternoon from Massachusetts, United States. I'm really happy to be here with you today.

Miranda Worthington:
As many of our London listeners will know, we had a tube strike that lasted a week in London in September, organised by the RMT Union over pay and working conditions. Both Josh and I are really interested in strikes. I was the HSC’s Director of Industrial Relations during the NHS strikes from late 2022 to 2024. Josh, do you want to say a little bit about your interest in strikes?

Joshua Flax:
I spent over 20 years as a United States federal mediator. I finished working in 2023 as the Deputy Director of the U.S. Federal Mediation and Conciliation Service. One of the core missions of that organisation is to help parties avoid strikes and lockouts in the private sector.

Miranda Worthington:
Prompted by these experiences, we thought it would be interesting to start a series of podcasts on strikes, industrial relations, and labour relations. Today we’ll be talking about what a strike is, different types of strikes, and their impacts. In future episodes, we’ll explore tactics, how to avoid strikes, and how to resolve them.

Joshua Flax:
I’m pleased we’re talking about strikes today because they can be extremely damaging and affect large parts of an economy. Interestingly, most people have never been on strike, but many have been affected by them in one way or another.

Miranda Worthington:
In the UK, nearly everybody has been affected by a strike in recent years, whether directly or indirectly. That’s not necessarily the case in the United States.

Joshua Flax:
In the UK, large-scale work stoppages like tube or healthcare strikes affect huge portions of the population. In the United States, strikes tend to be more localised, affecting specific cities or regions, with limited spillover nationally, with some exceptions like the Screen Actors Guild strike.

Miranda Worthington:
That may be partly due to geography and federalism, but also because UK strikes are often in the public sector, whereas in the United States strikes are more commonly in the private sector.

Joshua Flax:
That’s correct. In most US states, it’s illegal for public sector workers to strike, especially at the federal level. However, private sector unions in industries like healthcare, manufacturing, transportation, and telecommunications do strike.

Miranda Worthington:
Let’s start at the beginning. What is a strike?

Joshua Flax:
At its simplest, a strike is a withdrawal of labour. An organised group of workers collectively decides to stop working and stop receiving pay to signal that current or proposed working conditions are unacceptable.

Miranda Worthington:
Could you explain what a collective bargaining agreement is?

Joshua Flax:
Workers can legally organise into unions to negotiate collectively with employers over terms and conditions. This creates a team-on-team dynamic. The outcome of those negotiations is a collective bargaining agreement, which applies to all workers in that group.

Miranda Worthington:
You often describe this relationship as a marriage without divorce. Could you explain that?

Joshua Flax:
Once a collective bargaining relationship exists, it’s very hard to end. Both sides must continue working together, even when dissatisfied. Employers control the work activity, and unions control the workforce, so cooperation is essential. Neither side can operate independently.

Miranda Worthington:
So a strike is a way of expressing dissatisfaction without ending the relationship.

Joshua Flax:
Exactly. It’s a way for workers to express dissatisfaction when negotiations break down. Employers have a similar tool called a lockout, where they prevent workers from working.

Miranda Worthington:
We don’t see many lockouts in the UK. Do they happen often in the US?

Joshua Flax:
They’re rare but high-profile. For example, in 2012, the National Hockey League locked out players for several months, disrupting the season.

Miranda Worthington:
Are lockouts indefinite?

Joshua Flax:
Yes, like strikes, they are typically indefinite until resolved. That differs from the UK, where strikes are usually time-limited.

Miranda Worthington:
In the UK, strikes are often one-off or recurring, such as rolling strikes. These can be highly disruptive because systems must repeatedly prepare for and recover from disruption.

Joshua Flax:
So a rolling strike is a recurring strike pattern, where workers stop and start over time.

Miranda Worthington:
Yes, and unions may coordinate across groups to maximise disruption while minimising individual pay loss. However, if employers adapt, the effectiveness can diminish.

Joshua Flax:
How did the recent tube strike affect London?

Miranda Worthington:
There was significant disruption, but less than pre-pandemic because more people can work from home. That likely affects how unions plan strikes.

Joshua Flax:
Can employers replace striking workers?

Miranda Worthington:
In the UK, especially in highly skilled roles like doctors, that’s not realistic.

Joshua Flax:
In the US, it’s legally possible but rarely practical. Replacing an entire workforce is costly and inefficient, and employers usually prefer to wait and negotiate.

Miranda Worthington:
Let’s talk about the broader impacts of strikes.

Joshua Flax:
In the UK, strikes can affect millions quickly. In the US, impacts may be more localised but still severe, such as hospitals struggling to operate during a strike.

Miranda Worthington:
There’s also reputational impact, particularly when strikes are directed at government, as is often the case in the UK.

Joshua Flax:
In the US, strikes are usually focused on workplace conditions rather than political objectives.

Miranda Worthington:
For workers, strikes mean lost pay and potential workplace tensions, though they can also strengthen solidarity.

Joshua Flax:
Workers often don’t recover lost pay, even if wages increase later. Strikes are about raising future wage baselines for the collective, including future employees.

Miranda Worthington:
Rolling strikes may reduce income loss compared to indefinite strikes, which reflects cultural differences between the UK and US.

Joshua Flax:
Unions must think carefully before calling a strike. It’s usually a last resort when negotiations fail.

Miranda Worthington:
And it’s often harder to end a strike than to start one. Leaders must balance ambition with realism and persuade members to return to work.

Joshua Flax:
Successful unions often plan in advance what outcome will justify ending a strike, even if that isn’t visible publicly.

Miranda Worthington:
That sets up a future discussion on strike tactics. Let’s wrap up here.

Joshua Flax:
What have we learned today?

Miranda Worthington:
I’ve learned a lot about the cultural differences between US and UK strikes, particularly the concept of lockouts and indefinite strikes.

Joshua Flax:
I’ve learned how UK strikes, often in the public sector, can be highly disruptive nationally, whereas US strikes tend to be more localised.

Miranda Worthington:
Great discussion. Thank you, Josh. I look forward to the next episode.

Joshua Flax:
Goodbye for now.